AI Liability, Insurtech's Next Act, and Why Risk Never Scales Like SaaS

James BenhamAnd we are back with another great episode as I record this. It's 06/23/2026 course. I'm gonna publish this a little bit later but with me, my illustrious co host, the most interesting man in insurance, mister Rob Galbraith from also another sweaty hot part of Texas, San Antonio. Rob, how are you doing?

Rob GalbraithDoing well, James. Doing well, James. Hanging in there. And, the heat has, has arrived for sure.

James BenhamIt is hit. It is here. Glad glad glad it's, glad the air conditionings are or as the Brits would say the air con. Glad the air con works. We oversize our air con here in Texas to make sure that we have plenty of air conditioning for our long hot summers. With us from... Okay this is ironic. It's 88 degrees today in Houston. It is a 100 degrees in London where Freddie is. Freddie from hot sweaty London, how's it going?

Freddie ScarrattIt's okay. We've got an aircon in the, in the office, but it is swelteringly hot at the moment. So it's about the only time I think I've ever been on a call with with, people from Texas and I can say it is it is hotter here. But, I'm well, thanks. And thanks James and Rob for having me on today.

James BenhamAbsolutely. That that blows my mind. I can't I can't even wrap my brain around it. I mean, was just over in in London for InsurTech Insights. I feel like just a couple months ago I was over there for InsurTech Insights UK and then of course I was in New York when you and I ran into each other a couple weeks ago for InsurTech Insights New York which is another great conference and great seeing you there and getting to meet you in person for the first time.

Thanks for joining us today. We're gonna have a great conversation. Now look, always love talking about InsurTech, love talking about all things insurance and technology but look, it's the people behind the industry that we also enjoy digging into and so I wanna talk about you for a second. Let's go back before Bristol, before Eton, Let's go let's go back in time. Go all the way back here. You're a small boy growing up in in in in The UK. You you... Do you dream of becoming a footballer when you're that little?

I mean, what was the what was the original career aspiration for Freddie Scarrett?

Freddie ScarrattYou know, it's it's... I always wanted to be a lawyer but I think that's only because that's what everyone else in my family did and now that I don't do law and they all still do law, I'm very pleased I'm not a lawyer. But it it makes me laugh because they then have no idea what I do for a living. They think I'm an international businessman because they just don't understand finance or insurance or reinsurance. So that's what I am to them. So no, dreamed of being a lawyer.

Obviously, a professional footballer or professional rugby player, but those days went before I was about six years old. But, yeah, I always want to be a lawyer. So it's funny how things things turn out. But, yeah, very pleased to have found my way into reinsure.

James BenhamWell you know what they say, the source of all misery is the billable hour. So you know that's the problem. In laws you're very very concerned with billable hours. But of course there's a lot of wonderful lawyers that run insurance because insurance is legal contracts. So you always wanted to be a lawyer. Is that what you went to school for? Mean you ended up in geographical science I think at Bristol. I mean

Freddie Scarrattwhat was the sidetrack there? What was interesting, I've learned over the years that geography or geographical science as I studied, it doesn't actually really transfer to an American audience because it's not really the same thing but we studied everything from climate change to glaciers to human geographies and weirdly it was my first interaction with insurance because we did some very basic cat modeling and I remember, you know, as we sat in our computer studios looking at sort of glacial meltwaters and and impacts of flooding thinking like this is quite interesting actually.

I quite avoid this and then it was kind of vaguely mentioned that there's an insurance element to it, and I think, you know, I don't think that was a spark, but it would... It may well have been the seed which led to me for my career here.

James BenhamThat's fascinating. Yeah. I mean, just the titling, and that's always the problem with, like, understanding what a degree means in another country. Definitely would not have read that it would be like a GIS program, which is what we call geographic information systems and you get into mapping and flood mapping and I mean there's a lot of science behind that, right? Particularly useful in property insurance I imagine.

Freddie ScarrattYou would think I've never done property insurance. I know. I've used anything I learned in terms of the sort of the mathematics part of that in my career but maybe it was just that, you know, the kind of risk element I maybe thought was interesting and certainly do now.

James BenhamWell college is a wonderful maturing process and certainly it's where you develop your network and build friends do all kinds of things. So I think there's a lot of wonderful aspects of college even if you don't end up using your degree. I got a degree in accounting, never became an accountant. It went into running a software company and jumped headfirst into insurance but yeah the degree helps, the degree matters. So what was your... If we look back at your resume we go all the way back, you did an internship with Lloyd's.

Was that kind of your first touch point with insurance?

Freddie ScarrattYeah exactly. I think everyone says, you know, you either fall into insurance or you're the the son or daughter of someone who was who was in insurance and for me, I I fell into it. I played rugby with someone who then said one day, oh, I'm I'm working at at Aon. You know, it's interesting. You should think about a career in insurance. And so, yeah, I applied to the internship at Lloyd's. I thought if you're gonna start somewhere, start at the home of insurance, and it was, you know, a whirlwind eight weeks that I thought, you know, I was making meaningful impact to the industry and now looking back I think they just they just, you know, had me on the side of a desk for eight weeks and thought I was vaguely entertaining so asked me back to join the to join the grad scheme but the, you know, what a place to start aged 21 entering the city working in the Lloyds of London building and and starting your career at, you know, what in in is in sense a regulator but, one which is steeped in history to be fair like most institutions in in The UK but, you know is the heart of the insurance and the reinsurance market and if you're going to start anywhere start there.

James BenhamExactly right. Mean what an amazing place to be found mildly entertaining. I can see the conversation with The guys at the desk are like, oh, he's mildly entertaining. Let's bring him on. Yeah. Well, I think, you know, I think

Freddie Scarrattyou can't tell much about someone in eight weeks other than do you like them? Do you get on with them? Do they look like they can do the job? And and, you know the irony being that the team I spent eight weeks with is not the team I then joined on my grad scheme but it was, you know, they kept all eight of us who did the internship and twelve years later many of us are still very good friends which is great to see and almost everyone is still in the market which I think is really important.

But yeah it was, you know, back in the day when ties and suits were mandatory, you know, now I'm just tie less but most people aren't even wearing suits so, you know, a lot's changed in twelve years.

James BenhamIt has. It's a it's a pretty different market. I mean, just in general, the work environment's different and everything else. So you you went on a Lloyd's graduate in marine cargo and then, professional indemnity. So you had some of these things that happened with Marsh and Beasley and then you're a graduate analyst, then you go to Liberty Specialty Markets, Like what was the idea, what was the progression of what we threw the different lines you worked on and what you learned there? Yeah so I was very lucky in that the grad scheme at Lloyd's at the time,

Freddie Scarrattwas actually force force a comment so I was sent to Beazley to do claims which, you know, I think doing six months in claims and understanding how claims are processed is such an important thing which many people never get experience of in our industry even if they're in the industry for forty years underwriting or breaking risks, they never see the end goal which is to pay claims to customers so you know and it was quite harrowing. Some of the some of the health stuff we were doing was was really not very palatable and gave you a real appreciation for what the end goal of insurance was.

And then six months later I was at Liberty doing financial lines reinsurance which you couldn't get further away from the end customer paying a claim so I had an amazing breadth of access and breadth of experience all sort of put into two years. And there was, you know, whether earned or just because it said Lloyd's, as a Lloyd's graduate, Many doors were open, and I could go speak to, you know, CEOs. I could go speak to underwriters. I could spend time on the box in Lloyd's underwriting risks.

So I got an amazing access, and at the end of that twenty four months, I had kind of made up my mind that I wanted to go into reinsurance, and, there was at that time a start up reinsurance broking firm called Capscombe, which was, you know, gaining a lot of traction and and making waves. And I I just wrote to the CEO to say, can I have a job? I think, you know, I think you'll find me useful and I can do anything and everything you want.

And and the CEO said, yep. Come on board. That sounds great. And and, you know, at the time I was like oh that's a real leap of faith and after getting into the company and realizing you know how well they were operating that you know I was... They kind of just wanted to jump on anyone who could show any initiative and could you know, go above and beyond, which all startups wanted to. So that's how I ended up in in reinsurance broking because, you know, I'm sure you too do, but some of the...

Some people not... Might not get the history, but, you know, Capsicum was eventually bought by Gallagher, and we became Gallegree. And so, you know, quite early on, I wanted to go into reinsurance, and I was fortunate enough that that Capstone kind of took the bet on me. Ibso facto how you ended up where you're at now. Right? Exactly. Yeah. But it's... You know, when when joining that startup, I got put into mortgage risk. You know, I I didn't have a say. It was, you know, go do this, and that's a fascinating industry.

For someone who grew up under the the the cloud of the global financial crisis, suddenly working with Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae was an amazing place to go to, and, you know, I've never been to Washington DC and suddenly I'm flying in to have meetings with these big institutions and what a place to start and then eventually kind of found my way because of how startups work, you know, you work on lots of different things, started working with some insurtechs and eventually made that my main career as it is now at Gallegree but I often get asked kind of you know did you ever think that this is where you'd end up and it's like of course not, I had no idea insurtech was a thing when I started my career but by being sort of open to new ideas, open to having meetings and meeting people and getting...

Rolling my sleeves up and working on accounts other people thought might not be profitable, I got this amazing you know, look into an amazing industry, and now, you know, working full time within Shore Tech is is so rewarding.

James BenhamYeah. Absolutely. Rob?

Rob GalbraithYeah. Freddie, thank you for walking us through your journey. Definitely fascinating, and and, you've got an enormous breadth in a relatively short amount of time, right, which I I... And to your point, I think a lot of people do kind of get stuck in one discipline, you know, for a long time. They they work their way up, and, obviously, there's more complexity, but they still see such a small sliver of the overall kind of, insurance marketplace. It's it's great to kinda hear all the, diversity that you've you've had, and I think it's probably primed you, right, for your your role now.

So I wanted to to ask you a little bit about InsurTech and and your first interactions, kind of, you know, kind of, I guess, first impressions or or or thoughts on, you know, what is InsurTech? How how, you know, disruptive or complementary is it? And then, know, how has it evolved over the time that you've really kind of been interacting, and how do you see kinda today the relationship between those traditional, you know, businesses, many of the the names you've already mentioned, and kind of these, tech startups?

Freddie ScarrattYeah. It's it's... I mean, it's a great question. I think today, the insurtech market has clearly shifted from the experimental stage to execution. So, you know, especially now with AI at the center of both that innovation piece and the capital allocation piece. Our latest global insurtech report, the only plug I promise, shows just how kind of extreme that's become with with 95% of all insurtech's funding in q one twenty twenty six flowing into AI focused companies, effectively making the terms AI and InsurTech one and the same now.

You know, that concentration of capital is reinforced. A kind of broader set of trends. Firstly, AI is being institutionalized across underwriting claims and distribution. Investing is converging on infrastructure led models rather than kind of front end distribution, and we are now seeing entirely new product classes, most notably AI liability or AI risks as part of a wider digital risk category which didn't exist back in sort of twenty eight, twenty nineteen when I first started working on on InsurTechs. At the same time distribution is becoming embedded within ecosystems driving this continual rise of MGAs and platform led models we've been seeing recently.

I think MGAs definitely seem to be on a new wave where delegated underwriting to experts is definitely something underwriters in London are really are really liking. We are seeing a huge amount of portfolio underwriting teams appearing at syndicates. You know, their job is to write delegated risk into MGAs. I think that's great. Put capacity in the hands of the experts who are on the ground writing these risks day to day. How is that not good? But all of this has fundamentally reshaped that relationship between incumbents and insurtechs, Rob, as you were kind of getting at from the early narratives of disruption which kind of predated my involvement in insurtechs, but, you know, 2014, 2015, 2016, it was all disruption and now it's about deeply integrated partnerships.

Right? It's all around how can we help you to make both of us better and I think that's extremely good. Know, carriers and reinsurers are providing risk capital, risk expertise, and regulatory infrastructures, and Insurtechs are delivering that technological capabilities which is gonna transform their businesses, and that's a great tandem relationship we're now seeing. So kind of, you know, stepping back, the simplest way to characterize it is I think firstly AI is redefining how insurance operates and frankly I'm a huge optimist about that. I think it's going to unlock huge amounts of insight and data and opportunities.

Secondly, it is also creating a new area of risk and and how do we as an industry answer that. Thirdly, you know, capital is returning to the insurtech market from the peaks of 2021, which is fantastic, and it is concentrating on scalable models which which work for the long term on the risk originating side in a profitable manner and on the SaaS platform side with with partnerships, and I think both are extremely good trends.

Rob GalbraithSo that's a lot of information, Rob. No. That was perfect. Yeah. Very comprehensive. Thank you.

James BenhamYeah. It's an... It's it's interesting. I mean, why... So what's your read on why Capital shied away from Insurtech and then came back?

Freddie ScarrattSo

James BenhamLike, now that you have a post... Like, now that you have a little bit of hind... You know, benefit of hindsight.

Freddie ScarrattYeah. And and the great thing about doing that report is we track it quarter on quarter. So we we have all of that data of the investors, how much per quarter broken down by, you know, what funding rounds, what geographies, what lines of businesses and I think the key difference is a lot of money entered the market in 2019, 2020, and 2021 as it did in lots of other fintechs. So this is not just in short text. This is the holder... The whole venture world. You know, there was a lot of cheap money in 2019, 2020 where interest rates were, and there were a lot of, you know, large venture firms without insurtech expertise jumping on the space.

And fundamentally what happened is they misunderstood or misread how you value risk originating businesses in that you cannot scale businesses by just writing more and more and more and then hoping that that risk object becomes cheaper like a book does or like a commodity does. That doesn't happen in risk. A thousand bad risks is if anything worse than a 100 bad risks and so we saw this... Rest on penetration, yeah. Exactly and so a lot of that venture money left, there's a lot of that private equity money left and what we've been left with are one venture and private equity firms specializing in insurance and also we are seeing insurers and reinsurers also increase their investments.

So the past two years, both years have been the highest ever which is fantastic for insurers and reinsurers investing in InsurTechs. And so we now have specialist capital which understands the business and we have founders who realize that actually they need to grow profitably and that's I think the most... Oh what what?

James BenhamIncome has to exceed their expenses?

Freddie ScarrattExactly. You can't write a loss ratio of 150%

James Benhamfor six years and expect reinsurance capacity to remain And Or or just say we're gonna make it up on volume? You're like, no. You're not. Like...

Freddie ScarrattYeah. Entirely. So, you know, and and that's a lesson that's a lesson we needed to learn, and it isn't... As I said, it wasn't just in short tech. It was a lot of other areas, but it was... You know, you can see it in the funding. It goes straight up, straight back down, and now we're we're we're, you know, going back up, not at the same speed, but there is a lot of capital coming in which understands and investing in great businesses. So I'm very optimistic about the future in that regard.

James BenhamBut define what an InsurTech is though now because this definition has changed through time, right? Like originally have people who say we're to disintermediate brokers, we're going to go direct to consumers, we're going to be, know, we're to try and raise enough money to be a carrier straight out of the gate and we're going to be direct to consumer which is by the way the most expensive way you can possibly enter the insurance market, right? Then distribution costs overwhelmed a lot of these, right? And then bad decision making on risk.

You see some pretty crappy loss ratios, they're basic, they're combined, was all kind of bad and they raised money on just being innovative in some way shape or form. So you kind of go through that peak then trough and now we're coming out the other side. The definition of what an InsurTech is at the same time a lot of carriers, brokers, MGAs, TPAs, they've adopted AI, automation, streamlined applications, like they took hints from the InsurTech community and then adopted it. So like what's the difference anymore?

Freddie ScarrattYeah. I think, you know, when... And and and it's never a long conversation at dinner parties because no one wants to talk to the insurance guy about insurance for too long which I completely understand but when I speak to my friends who aren't in the industry, there is a view of insurance especially in London because of Lloyd's and how old fashioned it seems and I think it's just wrong. I think there is a lot of great innovation and so what happened was I think a lot of insurtechs were founded by non insurance people who thought, oh, we'll just smash that with new technologies and new ways of doing things because they're stuck in the past.

And I think they entered the market and suddenly realized that that's not true at all and they were coming out... Coming up against extremely large, well funded, well run companies who have been doing this for a hundred years and they thought nothing's changed in a hundred years. Well, no. Everything's changed in a hundred years and it's a great, you know, market respect that those companies have been running for a hundred years. And I think fundamentally... And and that the same is reflected on kind of the speed of change.

So a lot of the things I hear is, oh, insurance is is slow to adopt. It's like, well, that's not always the case, but the reason it is going to be slightly slower is every other industry there is a max downside. It is if you invest 10,000,000 your downside is 10,000,000. In insurance you have an unlimited downside because your risk could be unlimited, your losses, and so you're always going to be slightly slower to adopt new technologies and innovate if your downside is unlimited because you can't cap that.

You can have a 10000% loss ratio and so those mindsets I think made one, it quite hard to come in and succeed and two, then made quite a lot of founders frustrated at the speed of change. But I'm seeing insurtech start and launch into the market within nine, ten months and I think that's that's fantastic. Within one one year you're live and you're writing risks. That's great.

James BenhamAnd is an Insurtech purely an MGA right now?

Freddie ScarrattSo,

James Benhamyou know, we define Does it always end in the market as MGA?

Freddie ScarrattThere are always exceptions to the rules, Corgi being sort of the most famous example now of of not an MGA insurtech launching into the market, but in in the most in the most hand, in risk originating insurtechs are entering the market as MGAs or broker distributors. And we define insurtechs as, you know, technology led insurance companies or SaaS platforms. So we either have SaaS or we have risk originating platforms. Those are the two which we define and and part of the reason we define it as such is as a broker, I'm looking to work with risk originating platforms, you know, because that's how we charge our fees.

So part of our definition kind of serves the interest of of of of... In Gallegory and then the Insurtech team as well.

James BenhamAwesome. Rob?

Rob GalbraithSo, Freddie, you touched on this earlier, and I'd love to to hear you expand, this idea of developing solutions around AI liability. So I think this has really come to the fore in the last year too where I've heard a lot more discussions about it. And so, you know, I could throw a lot of terms of your questions that I have, but I'll I'll keep it kind of broad and kind of let you guide the audience because I'm sure, you know, our our listeners and viewers, you know, are are very keen to kinda learn more.

So maybe you could just kinda broadly define, like, what is AI liability? Maybe there's some some buckets or categories, lumped together that kinda fall under that. And then from, you know, developing solutions, what have you been working on or or seeing in the marketplace?

Freddie ScarrattYeah. True. And, you know, the premise we start with is, you know, AI is looking like it's going to be a fundamentally different risk class. Now I'm not talking about the use of AI as a technology. I'm using... What I'm talking about is with the advent of AI and its use within organizations. You know, as organizations embed AI into decision makings, automate workflows, deploy agentic systems. There are new risk vectors emerging around probabilistic output, model drift, bias, third party reliance. You know, this is creating the foundations for a scalable new insurance class, which people are calling AI risk or people calling AI liability.

But but really, you know, what's interesting to us is how that sits within the broader convergence. You know, how does AI, AI risk, cyber, professional indemnity, you know, how are these all merging into a single digital risk category for example? How are our clients thinking about that and what is the reinsurance market doing around that? So the challenge for insurers and reinsurers is that these risks are far less sort of deterministic than traditional software or industry risks, making underwriting, aggregation modeling difficult claims attribution materially more complex and data is limited, sometimes causation is unclear.

So how are we dealing with that? But then on the flip side I think the opportunity is equally significant. If we can build credible underwriting frameworks for AI, partner with technology providers who can help underwrite that and define coverage clearly, particularly around kind of third party AI liability. This is going to effectively shape a new, you know, multi billion dollar market which I think is incredibly exciting. It feels like we're at the start of what cyber was at in the late nineteen nineties, early two thousands.

Now, you know, part of your original question was, well, what is this? Well, you know, there are lots of ways to answer that, but in its most basic simple way, if you are a deployer of of of artificial intelligence within your organization and you offer advice based on the output of that model, you could be found liable for that advice. And if it's based on AI, are you going to be covered by your current policies or are you not? And if you're not, we're going to need new new policies to cover you for that.

That's it in a nutshell.

Rob GalbraithYeah. And I would just think that as you mentioned, the the market opportunity has gotta be massive. Right? We've talked about, you just said earlier, 95% of investments, right, in in Intritech are going into the AI space that that in some ways speaks to the AI adoption. James, I know you you obviously have personal experience in in, you know, all the different, opportunities that you've explored and and and decided, you know, to deploy AI. And and I imagine, you know, really tons of businesses right across the spectrum are are all leveraging AI, like, in some way and are and and are gonna, you know, further ingrain it into all aspects of its businesses and processes going forward.

So I have to think that, and to part... To, Freddie, about the third party risk, right, which, you know, we we certainly have kind of come to learn the importance of that from a cyber perspective. So... Yeah. I didn't... Do you have any guess of the size? Sorry, Rob. Just to kinda jump in there. I think I think what's...

Freddie ScarrattWe're gonna have to find a new example because this is actually getting quite quite old now. But I mean, the Air Canada case example I think is a great example of why we need this new class of business. So for those of you who don't know, Air Canada has an online chatbot which a customer used to find out their bereavement policy and the chatbot hallucinated a bereavement policy And, the tribunal found Air Canada liable for the advice given by its chatbot even though that chatbot was not designed and built by Air Canada.

So there is the perfect example. Right? And if you think in your day to day lives how many websites you go on to which now have AI chatbots, it's almost everyone. Right? Almost all of them. Exactly. Because kind of why wouldn't you. Right? And so currently, surely then every company is gonna have to buy a standalone AI policy or maybe a, you know, a buyback endorsement on the side of their liability policy or potentially on the side of their cyber policy. But you're gonna need to price for that And currently, it's not being priced in in in in or not by, you know, a lot of people.

It's not being priced. So, therefore, it's going to be a small slice of the entire insurance and reinsurance market.

Rob GalbraithBut you anticipated growing to a very robust size in five, ten years in terms of the No. I'm I'm I'm I'm... I...

Freddie ScarrattI'm not gonna put a finger, I'm not gonna put I'm not gonna put a a finger on it that would be putting a a finger in the air. But what we are seeing is, one, brand new MGAs popping up in this space who are already writing risks. We're seeing over 2,000 state filings for exclusions by some of the largest insurance companies in in in The US. We are seeing stand alone policies being offered now by Munich Re. So the tide is... Or the ship is turning towards this direction.

You know, if you apply a small premium rate to the global insurance spend, that's probably what we're looking at. You know, it's probably going to be, you know, a significant size of what the cyber market is now, which is billions.

James BenhamWow. It's always the exciting part of this isn't there? That new opportunities bring new challenges and new challenges bring new opportunities and now you have an entirely new class of insurance companies that are gonna or MGAs and then obviously product that's gonna be rolled out into existing insurance companies as well.

Freddie ScarrattYeah and it's, you know, for those of us who work in this space, this is Nevada. Right? This is what we want. We want to be working on something brand new where we're actually making, you know, market defining moves. And and the people I'm working with in this space, you know, the the MGA co founders, you know, the leading kind of, modelers in this space, They're incredibly intelligent, amazing, out of the box thinkers, most of all who've never seen insurance before. But what they are are kind of AI experts who've said, well, we probably need insurance for this, and then they're talking to us about how we do that.

And and the next step is gonna be us talking to the reinsurers around this. Well, what are you doing? How are you aggregating this risk? What are you doing from a risk modeling point of view? And that's gonna be, you know, that's gonna be another set of challenges but also another set of of opportunities and and, you know, I'm I'm very thankful that at the moment, I'm in the middle of all of those conversations. It's it's fascinating.

James BenhamPlacing reinsurance too. Right? If that's

Freddie ScarrattThat that... That's the goal. Right? Currently, no one is buying reinsurance for this because it... It's only a very nascent class of business on on the insurance side. But if it's gonna But it's in a... It's inevitable. It's... There's a reason Gallegory is is... There's a reason we have a, you know, we have a AI risk initiative here at Gallegree which I'm one of the co chairs of, and and part of that initiative is is me as head of insurtech for London. Right? We have our cybersecurity experts, but we also have our casualty brokers.

We have our property brokers. We have our cyber brokers. Right? We need to figure this space out and we need to help our clients navigate it and if that ends up with them buying reinsurance through us then you know great.

James BenhamWhich is... It's all part of the story. Hopefully. Exactly. That's the that's that's part of the story. Alright. I'm gonna I'm gonna close with this question in our last couple minutes together. What's your favorite thing to do in the summer in London?

Freddie ScarrattOh, I mean, not in this heat. This is too hot, but you know... Okay. Well, a 100 degrees is a anomaly. Do you know what? We're we're we're about to enter... I I think there's no better city on earth in the summer. We're about to... Wimbledon's about to start. We're gonna be standing outside pubs with a cold pint of beer, watching the cricket, supporting England at the World Cup. We're clearly not gonna win. We never do, but it's coming home. And, you know, that's... It's the best.

For any of you who have been to London, you know, we have tiny streets, tiny little pubs standing outside in the sun. It's perfect. And you gotta, you know, you gotta enjoy while it lasts because it's gonna rain in the next three days. So that's that's that's what you gotta do. Right? And I'm a big walker and so walking down the river, you know, with friends popping out into pubs and coffees and and, you know, that's that's just what you gotta do in this city.

James BenhamIt's amazing. I I couldn't believe... You know, my daughter and I went over for spring break and she went and explored the city. I went to InsurTech Insights and in the evening we'd walk the Tims and then we see that just people just hanging out. Like here in The States, you don't have shelves on the outside of pubs and bars so that people can can put their drink down and talk outside the bar. In fact, you're not... In most places, you're not allowed to leave the interior of the bar with the alcohol because it's against the law.

Freddie ScarrattSo it's the nerve. You often see tourists make the mistake of putting their elbow thinking it's for elbows. It's like, oh, that's... That shirt's gonna get stuck to that for a while now. This is Jesus. It's where the drinks go, not not not not not where you lean against. The drinks go on the shelf.

James BenhamYou do not lean on the shelf because the shelf is sticky because of all the alcohol. Yes. You only do it once, mate. Yeah. You learn. You learn real fast the painful way. Well, Freddie, it's been a great conversation. Thanks. Extremely helpful and you have a lot of clarity around the current state of the InsurTech market so I appreciate that and it makes sense considering it's whole life and whole day. So thank you for joining, I appreciate it and Rob as always thanks for joining on.

Absolutely great conversation. Thanks Freddie. And thanks to all our listeners for tuning in today to geek out for our interview with Freddie Scarrett from Galloway in beautiful London, England. See you next time.